This is the interview I got from Dr. Dr. René Gralla. who wrote Garry Kasparov – taking up Shogi? before. This is equivalent to the bottom part of Shogi TV wird 50 ! .
"Whether to produce a Shogi program or not, that will not decided by NHK on the basis of rating only!"
An amazing jubilee for every true gamer at heart: 50 years ago - that is to say: on July 9th, 1960 - Japan's Public TV has launched its first TV format on Shogi. Why is it possible to produce tv programs on such a complex game as Japan's challenging version of chess in Asia and to find an enthusiastic audience there? Whereas German media professionals in unison use to pretend that chess does not work on tv? Hamburg-based author Dr. RENÉ GRALLA discusses that question with Mr. HIROMI KAZAMA (60), Executive Producer fof Shogi-TV at Japan's NHK.DR. RENÉ GRALLA: Since when does NHK air programs on Shogi?HIROMI KAZAMA: NHK started Shogi programs in 1960. The first program was aired on July 9th.DR. R.GRALLA: What kind of Shogi programs does NHK air?HIROMI KAZAMA: Actually we produce the TV formats "Shogi Lessons", "NHK Cup Shogi Tournament", "Go & Shogi Journal", "Live Match of Shogi Masters, Ryuou Match Live", and other special programs.DR. R.GRALLA: Very impressive, that variety of programs! Talking of tournaments on tv: That is rapid Shogi, I do assume?HIROMI KAZAMA: Yes, 15 minutes per match, and with regard to thinking time there are limits such as 30 seconds per move.DR. R.GRALLA: How much money does the winner reap?HIROMI KAZAMA: The winner receives 5 million Yen. The runner-up gets 1 million Yen.DR. R.GRALLA: What is the vision behind NHK's policy of airing shows on Shogi?HIROMI KAZAMA: Our basic idea is to hand down the traditional culture and to spread the intellectual game.DR. R.GRALLA: So that policy is part of the profile of NHK as being a public broadcasting system whose task it is to inform the public and to promote Japanese culture?HIROMI KAZAMA: One of NHK's aim as a public broadcaster is to foster traditional arts and culture. Therefore, yes, it is a part of our policy to promote Japanese culture through these programs.DR. R.GRALLA: What is the position of Shogi in the framework of Japanese culture?HIROMI KAZAMA: I think it is regarded as one important part of Japanese traditional culture and amusement.DR. R.GRALLA: We have learned that the first Shogun Tokugawa Ieyasu who lived from 1543 to 1616 has established a professional system for players of Go and Shogi in 1612 ...HIROMI KAZAMA: ... that professional system was created by the Edo government, namely by the Tokugawa Shogunate which valued Go and Shogi. It is said that they created official positions such as "Shogi-dokoro" and "Go-dokoro", literally meaning: "Places of Shogi" and "Places of Go".DR. R.GRALLA: How come that a board game such as Shogi has gained such a high status of esteem in Japanese society? A status that seems to find no parallel in any other society nor culture?HIROMI KAZAMA: I don't know.DR. R.GRALLA: Has the foregoing fact something to do with the high esteem that the culture of Samurai, their attitude and philosophy - think of BUSHIDO! - do enjoy in Japanese society? Since Samurai are Masters of Martial Arts, therefore Shogi can be considered to be a kind of mental Martial Art?HIROMI KAZAMA: I personally do not think that the esteem of the philosophy of Samurai and Shogi's status in society are related to each other. Shogi is a highly intellectual game, of course, but it does not go any far beyond that.DR. R.GRALLA: One of Japan' television networks - though the following one is not a program having been produced by NHK - has even aired a TV format called "Shogi Foul Collection" that seems to have been a kind of stunning variant of those popular tv shows that are airing mishaps and blunders of people who crash with something into something, or so. But that is amazing: The usual show on mishaps and blunders can be understood by everybody, no matter the cultural background nor the language. But that "Shogi Foul Collection" can only be understand by people who know the tricky rules of Shogi. Therefore: How come that a televised "Shogi Foul Collection" works in Japan? How many people in Japan know the rules of Shogi?HIROMI KAZAMA: There isn't any concrete data about this, but it is said that the number of people who know the rules of Shogi differs by generation. Maybe 33 per cent of male population above 50 years old knows the rules, but on the other hand one has to admit that less than 10 per cent of the people under the age of 50 years know the rules.DR. R.GRALLA: Maybe Shogi has a hard time with regard to the younger generation because of the challenge by popular digital games? Therefore the young generation prefers to fight out battles in front of computer screens - whereas the old generation prefers to sit at the boards of Shogi?HIROMI KAZAMA: It is true to some point, but now it seems that quite recently Shogi has started to regain popularity among children. We watch the trend that the younger generation gets attracted to Shogi again. For example, once we aired an introductory show on our program "Shogi Lessons" showing the very basics of Shogi. Some people who watched the program still continue to enjoy Shogi until today and do continue to watch our Shogi programs, as our researches have found out.DR. R.GRALLA: Therefore NHK's programs on Shogi seem to fullfill a very important task - namely to increase the popularity of Shogi among the younger generation?HIROMI KAZAMA: We produce Shogi programs with the aim to make Shogi a popular game for the general public, not only for young people, and not only for those who are already fond of Shogi.DR. R.GRALLA: What are the ratings of Shogi programs on NHK?HIROMI KAZAMA: The average rating of the "NHK Cup Shogi Tournament" is around 2 per cent, to name one example.DR. R.GRALLA: That rating does not seem to be very high, those 2 per cent! The main argument of Germany's ARD when they canceled their chess program: 500.000 viewers per each show of chess one hour before midnight had not been sufficient to meet the goals of rating. There have been no discussions at NHK about the Shogi programs because of modest rating?HIROMI KAZAMA: There is no doubt about that, 2 per cent is not a very high rating as you have mentioned, but still a sufficient number of people in Japan are enjoying the Shogi programs. In addition, we constantly receive response and messages from our viewers, a fact that is not reflected by the sheer numbers of rating.Moreover, NHK doesn't decide whether to broadcast the program or not only on the basis of the audience and the rating. Up to this moment, there hasn't been any argument about cancelling the Shogi programs, because these programs are one of the essential programs of entertainment and culture and thus these programs are that kind of programs that NHK - being a public broadcaster - can and should continue to offer.DR. R.GRALLA: There seems to be a deep cultural gap between Europe and Japan. With regard to tv coverage of a complex game such as chess - and Shogi is part of the family of chess, of course - , tv producers in Europe in general and in Germany in particular do pretend that they can not dare to confront a European audience with a "boring" game such as chess. They argue that chess does not generate any "interesting" visual effects, and that's why they conclude that it is impossible to produce a thrilling program on chess. Based on that kind of argument - apart from rating - a former tv show show on chess that the German ARD, the German counterpart of NHK, had aired in the past, has been canceled some years ago. Only in rare cases - special events the likes of the death of former World Champion Bobby Fischer or the World Championship between Kramnik and Anand at Bonn in 2008 - German tv covers chess. But they would never consider to produce TV formats on tournaments not to speak of any "Chess Foul Collection". Dear Mr. Kazama, you are running the Shogi programs aired by NHK: Can you understand the attitude in Europe and in Germany?HIROMI KAZAMA: I don't know about the European and the German attitude in depth, but I do think that it is necessary to try various ways of visualizing the games so that the audience can enjoy watching, especially, as you've mentioned, for these kinds of complex games.DR. R.GRALLA: Maybe the European public is stupid? Are Japanese people more clever? How come that big difference between the European and German public, on the one side, and the Japanese public, on the other side?HIROMI KAZAMA: I do not think that is due to the difference between the European and German public and the Japanese public, but maybe that is due to those times during our history when Shogi was very close to our life in Japan as being a daily entertainment.DR. R.GRALLA: The 3rd millennium, that is the visual age. People do not read, they are hooked on pictures, on videos and so on. Therefore Shogi has a hard time since its design is very abstract - only those plates bearing letters of Kanji. Therefore my question: Why not consider a new design of Shogi, a catchy design that can compete with the games of the visual age? Why not transform those abstract pieces of Shogi into figurine pieces looking like Samurai?! For the sake of getting more people attracted to Shogi - and to Shogi programs on tv?HIROMI KAZAMA: There seem to be many people who have tried to make Shogi more popular by various ways - the change of design including. However, those attempts have not been very successful so far, so the present design is said to be the best.DR. R.GRALLA: Now a personal question - you play Shogi too, Mr. Kazama?HIROMI KAZAMA: Yes. I have started to play Shogi when I was about 5 to 6 years old. I have been taught by my father who was a strong 4 dan-amateur player.DR. R.GRALLA: What does Shogi mean to you?HIROMI KAZAMA: Shogi is both my hobby and an important object of my job.
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